American’s are proud of their individual rights, freedom of choice is the most important to many of us. But, is this making us unhealthy?
Freedom of choice is among the most revered conservative values, yet there is evidence that it contributes to our poor health.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK154469/

The recent clamor over COVID-19 vaccines, masks and other mandated restriction, seems to illustrate why our overall health has declined.

What do you think.

 

Well before we can address the question of is freedom adversely effecting our health we have to scoop all the bullshit and rhetoric out of the way and get at the facts.

See, when the polio vaccine came out no one much argued; we lined up and got our sugar cube. Same with all the other vaccines. We just lined up, cause it was a thing, right?

The flu vaccine has had some debate, and the anti vaxxers were lined up against most childhood vaccines a decade or so ago. But, everyone pretty much said not our business, you're an idiot, but whatever.

In other words, not a big deal. Get vaccinated or don't. Your business.

Along comes Covid, and all of a sudden it is everyone's business.

We been told our whole lives, vaccination protects you, if you been vaccinated you're pretty much safe. Sure, there's always the exception, but get vaccinated, and don't worry about whatever disease you just got vaccinated for.

Not the case with Covid. Yes, if you've been vaccinated you're pretty much guaranteed to not get covid, and if you do get covid, you might not even notice, but if you haven't been vaccinated, and are refusing to get vaccinated then YOU'RE GOING TO DIE AND KILL US ALL!!

Which, by the way, explains why some people don't want to get vaccinated. They don't trust the government because the last decade or so government has been caught out with some pretty bullshit ............ bullshit. And now all of a sudden they're threatening and cajoling and intimidating everyone to take the shot. Some people are wandering "what the hell is really going on here?" And the answer is "GET THE DAMN SHOT!!"

Other people have medical reasons, some people don't believe in vaccination for religious reasons, they say, some people hate needles, some people are taking a wait and see attitude. But no matter the reason, the governments are all but screaming at us; "GET THE DAMN SHOT!!" And that's making a lot of people a bit jumpy about the shot.

Anyway, before we can decide is freedom adversely effecting our health, we gotta cut through the bullshit.

For what it's worth, yeah, Shooter thinks, our demand to be free is adversely effecting our health.
See, Shooter was free to smoke and he did, for 50 years. Damn near killed him, for sure took years off his life. People told him, his doctors told him, his dad told him. Shooter still smoked. Still damn near killed him. Freedom!
And people are free to do the damndest things, like sky diving and cliff jumping and river rafting, and some of them die which, if you think about it, really adversely effects their health.

But, Shooter would much rather die exercising his freedoms, dumb as they might be to others, than live without the freedom to, you know, be free.

 

How about a woman's right to choose? Is that a personal freedom? If so why are "conservatives" always trying to out law it? Does that right hurt YOUR health?

 

*sighs

If one believes life begins at or shortly after conception, one must logically oppose abortion.
If one believes life begins just shortly before birth, one can logically support abortion.

 

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

---Ben Franklin

''Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

---Thomas Jefferson


What is the difference between safety and freedom?

Freedom is being able to think, say, and do what you want – to live your life as you please. Safety is being protected from harm – to live your life without fear of danger. Though people may uphold freedom as an ultimate virtue, it's limited in a society

Here in the U.S. and much of abroad, there are levels and limits to the freedoms we hold dearly, those limits are dictated by laws.

As for the concept of 'safety', there are limits to that as well, and one is not 'fully safe'...vaccines dont eliminate virus's, it only enhances the immune system to a degree...in which does not eliminate the risk of exposure to any virus.

Human beings are part of the animal kingdom, yet we have been nurtured to develop compassion, compassion is a concept that no other living entity on this Planet can posses.

Compassion has resulted in much of the health crisis issues that plague this Planet...it all leads towards survival of the fittest.

Life expectancy 250 years ago was averaging 29-35 years of age...today it's averaging 80 years of age.

Now studies are claiming that a person can live to 120-150 years old.

Without being callous, people die....we all will, we will all leave some folks behind that will feel the impact of our death...due to compassion, death is inevitable....just as living ones life as full, complete and free should be just as inevitable.

 

Individual rights and freedom of choice.....what a joke, what we have are limited rights and freedom of choice and the best part? Even with limited rights and freedom of choice it simply comes down to money, thats pretty much it.

Drinking and smoking....you dont die right away and the health issues that crop up from them. FREEDOM
Abortions.....need new seeds that might drink/smoke/do dumb stuff. FREEDOM
Vaccinations.....of course keep us alive. FREEDOM

But hard drugs are bad, suicides are bad, abortions are bad, why? Lowers population, less money to be made.

 

AMMO

 

Freedom from universal healthcare has a price.

 

I’m not sure it’s freedom affecting your health. It’s greed, ignorance, and selfishness. But I guess you’re free to behave that way. So final answer is, maybe?

 

Two things here. One the false difference between the Polio vaccine and the COVID vaccine. There is no difference. The first Polio vaccines did not protect from all cases of Polio. After the first vaccine came out children lined up for Polio vaccines every year for the next 5 years.

And second this is a great example of how "conservative" values contradict themselves. On one hand they preach freedom of choice. But one any other day and/or thread they preach personal responsibility. And in the case of COVID they cancel each other out.

"Conservatives" certainly don't believe I have the freedom of choice to drink and drive or smoke in public places because its a health hazard to everyone else. So I have to have the personal responsibility not to do that or face the consequences if I do. But when it comes to COVID they claim they do have the freedom of choice to infect others, overwhelm our hospitals, to the point of death panels, and cause wave after wave of COVID and there is no personal responsibility at all for that.

Its all just the glaring lie of conservatism as it is preached and practiced in this nation and has been for at least 40 years where "conservatives" preach one thing but actually practice the opposite.

 

Well, but if you're vaccinated and already protected, what do you care if the unvaccinated are dying?
You can't be infected, and if you are infected, it's not going to kill you.
So, whats the beef again?

 

What would make this phony little niche of a fraud thread just laughable if 1,000 Americans weren't still dying of COVID everyday is we have already seen this false propaganda "freedom" scam before where those on the right choose to tear the nation apart with lies and false propaganda simply because a Democrat got elected president. We saw it when the Koch brothers created, organized and funded the Tea Party and Fox News and the rest of the right wing false propaganda noise machine promoted it to national prominence to attack the ACA. Except this time instead of attacking members of Congress the right has sunk to a new low of attacking school boards and healthcare workers. And no it is not both sides doing it. The partisanship was a bought and paid for political strategy that failed spectacular and crippled the nation.


Charles Koch says he regrets fueling partisanship: 'Boy, did we screw up!'

• In a new Wall Street Journal article, the billionaire Charles Koch expressed regret about fostering partisanship.
• He told The Journal that his new mission is to work across party lines on issues he sees as key, citing the economy, criminal justice, and immigration as examples.
• The Journal reported that in a new book, Koch wrote: "Boy, did we screw up! What a mess!"
• Koch and his brother David, who died last year, helped fund the rise of the tea party, which pushed the Republican Party significantly to the right over the past decade

https://www.businessinsider.com/charles-koch-partisanship-mistake-boy-did-we-screw-up-wsj-2020-11

 

What.
Anyone who dares not line up with the despicable agend or despicables are now traitors and liars, eh? One dare not criticize their programs, like ACA or biden/harris pig bills or their plan to cut the golden goose with high taxes, or open borders.
Free shit.
Thats what the minions get for their subservience, only it ain't free, is it?

 

Just like they always do...it's difficult to inject reason and rationale when dealing with hack fucks that thrive on emotion to back their messages....

Case in point:

Chocked-full of basic emotion, disregarding common sense and reason.

 

And chock full of ....... inaccuracies.

 

@tenguy

Then surely you can show us where you denounced the "Big Lie" and condemned those efforts.

Show us where you denounced the violent insurrection and attempted coup to over throw the results of a free and fair election.

Show us where you have denounced and condemned Trump for refusing to accept the results of the election.

And while you are at it if you really are a "fiscal conservative" show us where you railed against the trillion dollar budget deficit Trump and the Republicans were running before anyone ever even heard of COVID 19 like you did for all eight years Obama was president.

Do you need a reminder of what you were saying back them. I've got it just real handy if you need reminded of how you railed against the deficit and debt back then.

Because if you can't and/or won't then you are simply bullshitting and posturing like you have in all the time I've known you. Simply lying out your ass in an attempt to make yourself look good.

 

Fuck all the ''bi-partisanship semantics''....that's what has got this Nation a 14 figure deficit, that's what's got this Nation set for more social safety-nets that destroy incentive, that's what got this Nation having an education system that is practically fucked up beyond all return, that's what has got this Nation burning and destroying it's own towns and cities.

We stand and protect the principles this Nation was founded upon, or return this Nation into what it fought against....

 

Our premier Mark Rutte stated that we cannot let individual freedoms be the cause of other people's deaths.........so there is a public health component.

Our vaccination rate is at about 85% of over 18's and 80% of the over 12's.

Freedom is not freedom if it endangers someone else......it is reckless endangerment!

Thinskin

 

What freedoms do Americans enjoy that other peer nations do not?
Freedoms that would prevent better health outcomes? What are we talking about here?

1. Adverse birth outcomes: For decades, the United States has experienced the highest infant mortality rate of high-income countries and also ranks poorly on other birth outcomes, such as low birth weight. American children are less likely to live to age 5 than children in other high-income countries.
2. Injuries and homicides: Deaths from motor vehicle crashes, non-transportation-related injuries, and violence occur at much higher rates in the United States than in other countries and are a leading cause of death in children, adolescents, and young adults. Since the 1950s, U.S. adolescents and young adults have died at higher rates from traffic accidents and homicide than their counterparts in other countries.
3. Adolescent pregnancy and sexually transmitted infections: Since the 1990s, among high-income countries, U.S. adolescents have had the highest rate of pregnancies and are more likely to acquire sexually transmitted infections.
4. HIV and AIDS: The United States has the second highest prevalence of HIV infection among the 17 peer countries and the highest incidence of AIDS.
5. Drug-related mortality: Americans lose more years of life to alcohol and other drugs than people in peer countries, even when deaths from drunk driving are excluded.
6. Obesity and diabetes: For decades, the United States has had the highest obesity rate among high-income countries. High prevalence rates for obesity are seen in U.S. children and in every age group thereafter. From age 20 onward, U.S. adults have among the highest prevalence rates of diabetes (and high plasma glucose levels) among peer countries.
7. Heart disease: The U.S. death rate from ischemic heart disease is the second highest among the 17 peer countries. Americans reach age 50 with a less favorable cardiovascular risk profile than their peers in Europe, and adults over age 50 are more likely to develop and die from cardiovascular disease than are older adults in other high-income countries.
8. Chronic lung disease: Lung disease is more prevalent and associated with higher mortality in the United States than in the United Kingdom and other European countries.
9. Disability: Older U.S. adults report a higher prevalence of arthritis and activity limitations than their counterparts in the United Kingdom, other European countries, and Japan.

 

Now, in this thread were being told that the U.S. Citizenry, on an individual basis, is too irresponsible to decide what they choose to put in their body....along with having an inferior healthcare system.

tsk tsk.